[Hundred Electric Vehicles] Industry Leaders Dialogue: Future Trends of the Automotive Industry under the New Sihua

On January 21st, the China Electric Vehicles Centenary Forum (2018) was held at the Diaoyutai State Guesthouse in Beijing. During the forum, an industry leader dialogue with the theme of “a new round of automobile revolution” became the focus of attention in the industry. Industry leaders Aiming at the future trends of the auto industry under the new Sihua; and discussing the opportunities and challenges faced by the traditional auto companies under the new situation, the following are the hot topics:

Zhao Fuquan: Good morning everyone! I am Zhao Fuquan from the Automotive Industry and Technology Strategy Institute at Tsinghua University. I am very honored to host this morning's industry leader roundtable forum. Today’s theme is the new round of automobile revolution. We invited several heavyweight guests to the automotive industry to enter a new era. The traditional supply chain OEMs and distributors have transformed into the automobile’s industrial ecology. The earth-shaking changes in the automotive industry have also brought great expectations to the industry's employees. Everyone also knows that the development of China’s new energy automobile industry should be said to be in full swing. The 100-person meeting today and today is the best witness. At the same time, the National Development and Reform Commission has just released the “Strategic Plan for Long-Term Development of Intelligent Network Alliance Automotive”. Especially at the just-concluded CES exhibition in the United States, Toyota announced to the world that its competitors are not Mercedes, BMW, or Volkswagen. He believes that such companies as Apple and Google will be the biggest competitors for the traditional automotive industry to a new round of industrial development. So, where is the auto industry? Where is the focus of the new round of science and technology revolution in the automotive industry? How traditional car companies keep their original competitive advantages and take them to the next level. How emerging companies can grasp the golden historical opportunity and how to drive new public, new Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and new Ford are all hot topics in the automotive industry. The industry develops from an original chain structure to a borderless mesh structure. The original car is used. Now it is not driving. It can be drone. The car used to be an island of information. Now it has entered the sea of ​​information. A driver's license can drive, the future car will be unmanned, and so on, all this will bring infinite imagination to the future development of the automobile industry.

Today we very much invited four guests. Let me introduce one by one. they are:

Co-Chairman of the Global CEO Development Conference, former Vice Minister of the Ministry of Foreign Trade and Economic Cooperation Long Yongtu

Chairman of China Development Research Foundation, former Deputy Director of the State Council Development Research Center Liu Shijin

Director of Volkswagen Group, President and CEO of China Hezmann

Weilai car founder and chairman Li Bin

Zhao Fuquan: I have more programs in the auto industry. I have become an amateur professional host. However, I am very honored to organize such a high standard. Today, we can see two ministers on both sides. It is known that Liu Shijin is the leader of China's top think tank, Long Yongtu is the chairman of China’s WTO negotiations, and China’s reform and opening up has become one of the leaders in world commercial competition. At the same time, it has traditional car companies and has worked hard in China. For many years, Professor Heitzman, who is a leader, and Li Bin, a general manager of Weilai, have high expectations. Just now Minister Long introduced that he would also like to make a movie for today’s forum. Two hours, four guests, is also a huge challenge for the host. Today's time is enough, you can't be cold, it depends on your applause.

In addition, in this process, we are not in this process of presiding in this way. We interact with each other and we can ask questions. It's not simply that I asked, everyone answered, and lasted 30 minutes for everyone. I asked despite the comparison. Sharp, but there is still no place for addiction. I hope everyone will ask questions in 30 minutes. Before the official start of the roundtable dialogue, Minister Long had a few words to share with you. Welcome Minister Long to say a few words.

Long Yongtu: I am very pleased to participate in this dialogue. Today is full of friends and guests. Since the 19th century, when Germany made its first car, the car has entered a global perspective. At the beginning of the 20th century, Americans used the assembly line to first mass-produce cars. Make the car begin to enter many families and the whole society. After more than a hundred years of development, the automotive industry is facing a huge historical or revolutionary stage of change. Today, we are honored to have the world's top experts in the automotive industry, such as Dean Dean, to guide us in this field. discuss. Now the products of the entire car, the automobile industry, and even the people of the car are undergoing fundamental changes, so we can look at such a train of thought to see how the new round of the automobile revolution has been redefined, especially today. Two leading figures in the automotive industry participated in the discussion together. One is the public, representing the best in the traditional automotive industry, and the other is the representative of advanced so-called new car manufacturing forces. Mr. Li Bin must bring a lot of sparks to our discussions. A lot of wonderful ideas, following Dean Zhao guide the dialogue, because only the guidance of experts can produce high-quality dialogue.

Zhao Fuquan: Thank you, Minister Long! Everyone gave a round of applause and every time they were enthusiastic. The following is the beginning of the formal program link. Today is called a new round of the automobile revolution. Just now Minister Long said that the leaders of the industry are not industries. We save the word "industry" and it is the leader dialogue. High, far-sighted, clear-sighted, and accurate, leading the development of the industry. Sometimes people who make cars are watching cars everyday and they don't feel the changes in the world. We want to interact today. In the end, we understand how to understand the new round of the automobile revolution. We invite the leader of the country’s top think tank. Director, please ask Director Liu to talk about what is meant by the new round of automobile revolution in your eyes.

Liu Shijin: We are not considered to be an insider, let alone an industry leader. It is a bystander. As a bystander, I have recently been observing the automobile industry. I think of a word, a rare screenwriter for a hundred years. Minister Long just reviewed the history of the automobile industry. But that history must be turned over. What changes will happen soon? All-round changes. Energy, new energy, gasoline engines, diesel engines, electric vehicles, hydrogen, various options. Driving, people can't, machines drive, artificial intelligence, I recently attended a conference and I was hit by some shocks. There is an argument that the unmanned technical problems are basically solved. The down is whether to adapt. I opened a meeting two days ago. Some people say that this change will bring about some situations that we cannot imagine. Saying that there may be such a news on a certain day in 2030, an unfavorable situation in a certain city management is that someone actually drove to the streets. This is a major insecurity factor. The use of the car is now shared bicycles. In the future, it will be a shared car. If it is shared in the future, it will be enough for 20% of the cars, so the traditional car companies will have big problems and will not need so many cars in the future. In addition, intelligent transportation, the recent Internet companies engage in urban brains, said that the entire city has to carry out mental rearrangement and coordination, everything is to be linked, the future of the car and our office, and where we live, and the future Diaoyutai State Guesthouse is all linked together. This car thing, this morning we are going from A to B. It's just a tool to carry. It may be a hotel in the future. It will change very much.

Therefore, I feel that not only the car itself has changed, but also the automotive industry. In the past, we talked about the automobile society. In the future, it should be the entire wide area. The traditional industrial society at all levels and in all aspects will undergo profound changes. We now say that the time of this change is very embarrassing. What kind of changes will happen? All of our current estimates may be conservative. Looking at them 10 or 20 years later, the current estimates are conservative. The question now is how to look at such a big change and how to adapt. As an onlooker, I am certainly not professional, but there is a benefit. Wherever I think of where I am, thank you!

Zhao Fuquan: Liu Zhuren is everywhere talking about him as an outsider of a car. Therefore, during his years as the chairman of the State Council Development Research Center, he worked together with the public to raise the “Blue Book for the Development of the Automotive Industry” and did a lot of work. As a state-level think tank, he has a thorough understanding of the automotive industry as a big leader and expert. He said that this is a historically great opportunity that has never been seen in a century. It is necessary to change every aspect, including automobile society and life, and it is not just the automotive industry. The entire traffic and our lives will be closely linked in the future. Maybe in 2030, one day it would be bad to say that the city is martial, because someone is driving alone to the streets. "The whole city martial law" is what I said. We must magnify the significance of Director Liu's remarks. This is a revolutionary change for the entire future of our industrial system and for the automotive industry. The opportunity is so great that it is beyond imagination. But the most important thing is that we have to embrace and really want to seize this opportunity.

Long Yongtu: I particularly want to talk about the profound changes that the current automobile revolution has brought to the automotive industry. In the past, people talked about automobiles and talked about the automobile industry. People who basically make cars are talking.

In the past year, I decided to negotiate the entire negotiation program from the WTO accession negotiations, or afterwards I had conversations with some people in the auto industry. I never talked about it very happily. I mainly talked about my own affairs within the industry, and always directed my head from the bottom. When talking about industrial development, talk about industrial development. If we look at the industry from a broader perspective, we should mainly discuss the impact of automobile consumers and the entire automobile industry on the entire society, as well as open and multi-angle discussions on the environment for the environment and energy. .

Now that a new round of the automobile revolution has emerged, it is impossible to discuss the auto industry with just a few auto giants. In the past, in the world, talking about the automotive industry is nothing more than GM, Volkswagen, Toyota, these big auto giants are talking about, China is just FAW, the second steam plus a few small brothers to talk about. I am very happy now. Suddenly, like Li Bin, a new group of carmakers who have entered the automobile industry, the ecology of the entire automobile industry will undergo major changes. This is what I am most interested in.

If you are talking about your own family, always starting from your own interests, but if you talk about it from the perspective of the whole people, in the future when it comes to the auto industry, the environmental protection department and the energy sector must participate. This will have a profound impact on the development of the entire Chinese automobile industry. The entire automobile industry ecology will also undergo major changes. This is very significant.

I just said with Mr. Heitzmann: As you are the best representative of the traditional automotive industry, now that Internet technology companies and other companies in some industries have entered the territories of your long-term operations, what do you think? At that time, Mr. Heitzmann said: We are not afraid. I think he is very emboldened. He asked Mr. Hetzmann to make suggestions on this. I'm very excited because I used to talk to automakers and I always talked about them because they understand their internal affairs, but if you add a lot of outsiders to talk about it, you don’t necessarily say that you’re alone. This is My own overall opinion.

Zhao Fuquan: In the past, Autobots said to themselves that the automobile industry in the future cannot say autos on automobiles. It is a change in society as a whole, and all opportunities are in sight. Simple automakers, traditional enterprises such as Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and Volkswagen It is not enough. From this perspective, in the future, this forum will have a deputy prime minister to discuss with us the issues of transportation, energy, environment, manufacturing, and travel, including the future of human life. It may be that the Minister of Housing and Development should also participate in the automotive industry forum. Because the infrastructure is not resolved, how do we develop electric vehicles? So don't be overjoyed with what we have achieved, but look forward to the future. This is an opportunity. This is why the 100-members will be full every time.

The following listen to Professor Hezmann from the perspective of the public, even from the perspective of their development of the industry, how to share with you a new round of the automobile revolution.

Heinzmann: Thank you very much! Just now you mentioned that the entire industry is undergoing tremendous changes and changes. The auto industry will become more and more automated in the future, and it will become increasingly shared. This is a very clear trend. Our future industries will be closely related to each other, and at the same time, we will see that more and more automated technologies are changing with each passing day and will be able to show us more changes. For example, artificial intelligence will make cars more intelligent, more intelligent and so on. This is a new trend. It is also why we cooperate with many Chinese companies to jointly develop new technologies and jointly study new trends in China.

VW China has done a lot of work in this area and hopes to adapt to this new trend. For example, we have started to talk with many new companies to establish new joint ventures. We are talking with many Chinese technology companies and we hope to establish a dialogue system so that we can truly adapt to the needs of the Chinese market and global trends. In order to be able to truly provide intelligent cars and services to all demanders.

On the next Wednesday, we will open a brand new future smart technology center. This is our future center in Asia. The location is in Beijing, China. This will open new cooperation and help us to cope with future trends. This is what Volkswagen China has done in this regard. This is a major strategy for us in China. At the same time, it is also an important part of our "2025 strategy".

The basic plan is based on our current total car retail volume, and hopes to see more electric cars and hybrid cars in the future, with different mileage, different models, and various new technologies, all in 2025. Presented and listed before. Our basic strategy is: We hope to be able to sell 500,000 new energy vehicles this year. We hope that more consumers will choose to buy electric vehicles and new energy vehicles. There are various types of electric vehicles, including SUVs, Hybrid cars, etc.; hope to achieve higher strategies and goals within a few years.

We have 40 different types of new energy vehicles, and we will publish these 40 models in the future. This is the calculation of the total number of brands under our brand, such as Audi, Skoda, etc. A total of 40 new models will be released. The energy model, which will be an important part of our new strategy.

The changes in the entire industry are changing with each passing day, and the trend of industrialization is growing. We will invest up to 10 billion euros to build joint ventures and conduct research and development. Nowadays more and more electric vehicles will come into this market and consumers need to accept these products and purchase these vehicles. What are their needs? This is a problem that we need to study more and pay attention to. For us, sales is not only the only goal, our goal is to be able to truly meet the needs of consumers, we need to take into account the different needs of consumers in 2020 and after 2020, and then produce the corresponding electric vehicle models .

There is no doubt that consumers demand the same level of safety. Whether it is the use of traditional models or electric vehicles, they all want to be able to really achieve safety and ease of use. No matter what kind of time or time, these are the needs of consumers. At the same time, it also hopes to be able to purchase inexpensive vehicles, which of course takes into account the cost of electricity, the cost of maintenance, and so on.

Taking these factors into consideration, we also need to reduce the cost of vehicles as much as possible during the design and production process. We need to consider battery issues in this issue. The price of batteries is getting cheaper now. This is also a challenge. How can we be able to Really produce affordable electric models. Charging problem, how can the charging infrastructure be convenient and popular to meet the needs of consumers. Environmental issues need to be considered. It is necessary to predict what kind of environmental problems may occur and it is necessary to ensure that vehicles do not cause environmental pollution. These are the challenges that will be faced in the future. Our problem is not only how to produce vehicles, but more importantly how to make vehicles acceptable to society and consumers. In such a context, we are working hard and we hope to truly meet the needs of consumers. Thank you!

Zhao Fuquan: Thank you, Professor Heitzman, Professor Heitzmann for sharing the public's understanding and strategic layout in detail. He really believes that the automotive industry is facing a huge transition period. The advantages of traditional car companies have been challenged, but the future has brought great opportunities. The public, as a century-old shop, will also meet this challenge. He believes that the future of automobile electrification will become the mainstream, and car sharing will also enter more and more households. Especially artificial intelligence will make the car smarter. In order to meet this challenge, Volkswagen has made many strategic plans in China and has realized that the auto industry in the future is not a simple traditional car company that can own the world and cooperate with too many partners. In this regard, the public has also done a lot of strategic layout and effective tactical measures. Mr. Heizmann said: In the future, the public in order to meet this challenge should deploy three innovation centers in the world. Next Wednesday, an announcement will be made in Beijing. This is great. In addition, in order to meet this challenge, Volkswagen must implement a comprehensive product line layout for all consumers, including short-distance, long-distance, high-cost, large-vehicle and small-car, and especially invest 10 billion with partners. The euro responds to the Chinese market. Personally, I personally think this is remarkable. It is also necessary to compete with companies like the masses of companies and can brighten their muscles. I personally think that opportunities still belong to companies that are always well-preserved.

The following is forwarded to Li Bin. Minister Minister Long just gave you a high rating. He said that traditional motorists are not allowed to entertain themselves and talk about cars. It is definitely not just a matter of the transportation system. The car still needs to be man-made. Someone bought it. Mr. Heitzmann can make good cars and build good cars, but the main thing is how to get cars accepted. In order to answer the questions of Director Liu and Minister Long, he also showed his muscles to Mr. Heitzmann. He welcomed President Li.

Li Bin: Thank you! I don't have any muscles to show off, I still use my actions to make innovative attempts. Today we are talking about changes in the industry. Let me first talk about my views on the industry. I started my car website in 2000. When I was just starting to buy a car in China, I was working on a car website. I had been doing the Internet. In 1996, I worked at the university as an Internet and I started my own business as an Internet. In the words of Mr. Zhao, I am the most knowledgeable about the Internet in the automotive industry. The Internet knows most about cars. This is your message. Thank you for giving me the slogan.

In the past ten years or so, my perspective has been different from others. My background is more cross-border and there are some differences in the perspective of observing the problem. How to look at the so-called 100-year real change, I think it is simply three aspects:

First, the car itself will certainly undergo great changes. First of all, it will take the telephone industry as an example. Before that, it was “telephone” and it was “Phone”. After 90’s, we’re talking about “functional mobile phones,” 2007. This is a "smart phone". Now that a computer is a smart phone, it is definitely not a function machine, and it is not a home phone. In just 20 or 30 years, there have been many changes in the communications industry. Is this also the case in the automotive industry? I think this is almost a pass. We used to talk about cars, EVs, and electric cars. I think it is very clear today. Then another car says, maybe another decade, we say that the car is a Smart EV. This is already There is no doubt that we do not need to say anything about this technology trend, Smart EV. This intelligence consists of two parts. One part is autopilot. This is undoubtedly the most advanced digital technology and artificial intelligence, big data and so on. How to understand another smart? This car has to become a partner who understands you, becomes a mobile living space, and both aspects of intelligence, the bicycles are connected to the Internet, and the car is not fun. The Smart EV is the only direction, what hydrogen fuel cars, hybrid, just to save fuel, but for the sake of environmental protection, the user does not necessarily pay, but the Smart EV, because the EV's architecture is most suitable for smart, whether it is tools, or reaction speed, Reacting quickly is very important in the era of autonomous driving. It takes 200 milliseconds to count the speed of the sensor and the calculation reaction. It is crucial that a few hundred milliseconds are saved. So Smart EV, in another 10 years, 20 Looking back at the year, just like the mobile phone industry, Smart EV will be equal to the car later, and the car is the Smart EV. This is a real change.

Second, what is the difference in the energy pattern? After the popularity of electric vehicles, it will naturally bring about environmental protection. There is no doubt that the cleanliness of electricity is easier because electricity has many ways to clean energy. But what's the bigger meaning? It is a distributed energy source. Electricity itself is a world-wide energy source, and it is more balanced in terms of equilibrium. There is sunlight, wind power, nuclear power, and coal power. Of course, coal is becoming cleaner and cleaner. There is also water and electricity, and so on. There is not so uneven distribution, but fossil energy is not the case. It is distributed in a few local. Because of this uneven distribution, around the oil energy industry, it has profoundly affected the international political landscape. In the past hundred years or so, world history is the history of energy competition. Behind the history of energy competition is the distribution of oil. The impact is very far-reaching, including economic and political. However, if we don't have the power to use it, why can the United States be more self-centered now? Because it is now an oil exporter, if it does not rely on oil, the entire energy industry landscape will change again, and international politics will be affected. Of course, Minister Long will understand this more profoundly. This effect is very far-reaching and it is more macroscopic. of.

Third, I called the change of use experience. This is something I am more concerned about. People on our Internet are deeply involved. Users will always pay for good experiences. Companies rely on efficiency to make money. However, users don't care if the public's car is good. I will buy the public. Must buy FAW, has nothing to do with love is not patriotic, who's car to buy who's car. However, the user experience will change over time. For example, if you buy things online today, you must buy them. Remittances need to be queued at the bank's counter and the parcels must go to the post office. If things go bad, they need to go to Jingdong Beijing Yizhuang Service Center. Change, if so, can electricity providers do it? It is impossible to do it. Jingdong started to really become an e-commerce business in 2007. Today, for ten years, what is the problem today in the auto industry? Car brands do not have overall responsibility for automotive user experience. The industry layout has been formed over the past more than one hundred years. There was no internet at that time, and there was no mobile internet. Mobile internet is the last decade. This is the user experience I just talked about. Each and every insurance company, you pick yourself, 4S stores, Beijing Volkswagen, Audi, plus dozens of stores. It's not easy to figure out the price. In short, it is such a layout that no one experiences overall responsibility for user experience. Of course, we do not mention Uber's model. I think that the change of technology, the current car companies are always easy to keep up, may have done better, but how to deal with users? It is very difficult for them to really re-define the user experience, break the existing whole architecture, and reconstruct a set of user service systems. Perhaps the technical content is not so high, but the determination needed is very huge, so the user experience will also be There are great changes. So I think the car itself will change, Smart EV, user experience will evolve to the 3.0 era, this is my outlook.

Zhao Fuquan: Thank you, Li Bin. Minister Long wants to ask you questions. He thinks my question is not sharp enough.

Long Yongtu: Just now I listened to the dialogue between the representatives of the traditional automotive industry and the representatives of the new car builders. I would like to ask Li a question. I saw Internet giant Ma Huateng on the Internet. He said that in the new round of the automobile revolution, traditional The automotive industry remains the protagonist. The enterprises of our Internet technology and other new technologies can only play the role of assisting and providing services, that is, providing Internet technology services. We do not know that Li always does not agree with Ma Huateng's judgment. From the words you just mentioned, whether or not you think that cars are generally made is the key to intelligence. What do you think of the traditional car companies that you talked to Mr. Ma Huateng in the automobile industry in the future?

Li Bin: This question is indeed more pointed.

Zhao Fuquan: Although Ma Huateng is your shareholder, he must give a clear answer.

Li Bin: Because Tencent is also our founding shareholder, it is not an ordinary shareholder. I think this statement looks from two angles:

First, indeed, the complexity of automobiles, especially the supply chain, I feel that manufacturing does not speak first, especially the complexity of the supply chain, as well as the difficulty and barriers of quality, supply chain and quality. It is very high, including funding needs, etc. Volkswagen has been very successful with a 10% share. In China, it is almost a little more than 10%. Because of such barriers, the automotive industry is within a very long period of time. I think that the existing auto companies are still the mainstream in terms of market share. For at least 10 years, in 20 years, this is certainly not the same as the mobile phone industry, because the mobile phone's iterative cycle is shorter and it has already entered the threshold. From this point of view, I completely agree with this statement. Although we are a new company, we have sold only 6 vehicles so far, but we have a lot of orders, and that 6 cars are also more expensive, 1.48 million US dollars. In the entire car ownership and sales volume, this is nothing, but the seeds have gone down and the president has.

In addition, great changes may occur in the added value of the entire industry. For example, it is no longer a simple suspension that determines the inter-generational differences. The engine may be chips, software, data, and sensors. Whose added value lies in the hands of these things? Ma Huateng said this from another point of view, perhaps manufacturing and body, may still be the current auto company will occupy the mainstream for a long time, but where is the soul and wisdom? I think this is another problem.

In general, no matter how long the time is, the company is always surpassed. The company is always used to be surpassed by new companies. It is not necessarily its own. For example, we are now working with Changan, and Guangzhou Automobile has also cooperated with us. The two new companies, these are also some new thinking, the relationship between the new company and the existing company, such as we also have cooperation with Jianghuai, so it is not an antagonistic relationship.

Zhao Fuquan: Thank you, Li Bin. Responding to shareholders' problems is easy when drinking coffee and drinking alcohol. In this case, the challenge is not small. What's more, Ma Huateng is also a big authority. Director Liu hurries to speak.

Liu Shijin: After listening to this question, I have a little thought. After I listened to what I said just now, what has changed in the big changes just mentioned? New energy, artificial intelligence, shared networks, etc. These things, just mentioned "Smart EV", I think the "SEV" is over, this is the highest added value. Who will be able to dominate the automotive market in the future? Who can become the boss, the second child, the third child, the fourth, and the oldest, depends on who can grasp the new things. I think who can awaken first and who wake up early will get up early. Just after listening to the public's layout, I think the public will not lag behind, but companies in the auto industry may not always be the same. Some instinctively resisted and stubbornly defended the position and were unwilling to give up. This type of company had some passive adaptations and eventually lost all. There are some who stand tall, look far, wake up early, get up early, and lay out in advance. Although they are old businesses, they stand on new high grounds. I think the public has this meaning. What is the final pattern? I don't agree with the old car camp, the new car camp. Some of the old car camps became new flag-bearers and they stood on the new high ground. Some new camps may not be able to stand up, some may be trendy, and finally they will stay there after the tide has passed. Whoever masters the new things and takes up the high added value becomes the mainstream. And I have a feeling that sometimes don't think too long. There is a tipping point for this thing. For example, this kind of technology is unmanned. When I listen to the meaning, it will soon become popular. New energy will also have popular meaning. After mass popularization, This pattern will change greatly in a few years. I think 10 years may be a bit longer. Considering that the problem may change in a year or two, the key is the node. I think that node is getting closer. Today we have Heinzmann, the German Volkswagen, and the new force Weilai cars. I think they have already stood in front of them.

Long Yongtu: I just listened to President Li’s speech. He basically acknowledged that Ma Huateng’s talk about the traditional auto manufacturing companies in this round of automotive revolution is still the protagonist, but whether it implied that if the automobile industry is likened to making cakes The main role of making cakes is still to be done by traditional companies, but the profits may be very large part of the non-traditional, new car manufacturing power companies to take, that is to say a considerable part of this cake profits to the new technology industry to take. This is a good thing. As long as car cakes are big, traditional car manufacturers may not be very worried because products are becoming more and more intelligent. In the past, consumers who may have only used to do so will greatly expand into new cars in the future. For consumer products, this cake will be bigger. In this regard, Mr. Heitzmann said no worry. What you may even want to consider is that the capital and technology accumulation of the traditional big auto industries like Volkswagen and Toyota are very rich. Can they not come up with an Internet company? I don't think so. The convergence of the traditional automobile industry and the new automobile manufacturing forces will gradually blur and form the situation in which you have me and I have you. This industry chain is really too long.

In particular, I would like to ask Mr. Heitzmann. Now that China has built 29 million vehicles a year, how many vehicles will be produced by electric vehicles five years later? The world is now more than 60 million vehicles. After five years, how many vehicles will be built worldwide? Which proportion of China's electric vehicles and electric vehicles in the global industry accounted for which ones grow faster?

Heitzman: Before answering your question, let's emphasize that the two keywords “smart electric car” and “consumer experience” are very important and the core for the future. Let's take the consumer’s experience as an example. The point is also a very important focus of our future innovation center in Beijing, which is our focus of work. Our advanced design and digital experts will do this work, first to understand what the customer's needs are. Youthfulness is a trend among Chinese consumers. Compared with other regions, these car buyers have higher usage rates for smart phones, smart devices, and electronic devices. This is a very different characteristic, so we have also developed Need to take into account this different characteristics, Innovation Center will take this as an important concern in the future.

The functional electric car is the future development trend. The car will be upgraded in the future and it will become a fully connected device. What is important to the consumer? For example, charging problems. Charging in the future may be one of the most important issues in the acceptance of electric vehicles. Now that there are many charging stations, consumers will know where there are charging posts and what consumers need to know needs more, such as whether they can book charging services, whether they can get a clean charging service, and whether they can Next to buying a cup of coffee, or whether there are facilities for children's entertainment in the charging place, while charging can also go shopping, etc., these are all we need to consider. For consumers, they will consider these factors to choose a charging location, these factors are an integral part of the smart environment.

I have a certain degree of certainty that compared to other countries, China will certainly be ahead of the world in the speed of development of electric vehicles. The Chinese government’s goal is to be able to successfully sell 5 million electric vehicles by 2025. I think this figure is a very large number. This is a grand goal. If we really go to calculate and analyze this figure, we want to reach this number. What needs to be done? Vehicle companies need to take into account factors such as the type of consumer demand, such as the type of SUV, and other heavy-duty models, which require more fuel. If you want to reach the Chinese government's goal of selling 5 million vehicles by 2025, you will need a lot of fuel.

大众的目标，大约在2025年之前达到50万或更多。最低目标是在新能源汽车市场所占据的市场份额不低于现在在传统内燃机汽车市场所占据的份额。我们希望能够在中国的新汽车市场发掘更大的蛋糕。谢谢。

赵福全：听海兹曼先生讲完，包括刘主任的评价，认为李斌总应该感觉很好。海兹曼先生说他非常认同李斌总讲的所谓智慧电动车，另外未来竞争制高点也在客户服务体验上。他觉得未来电动车要想发展，充电基础设施的发展就变得至关重要，这个问题不解决，电动车难有大的突破。反过来，充电过程中，客户需要充电意外的体验，我们是否都考虑到了？比如充电过程中到那儿喝咖啡，是否可以预约充电，在充电时有没有儿童设施、汽车修理等等一系列的东西。

最后为了回答龙部长的问题，2025年，中国电动车汽车市场会达到一个什么样的销售目标？海兹曼先生说：国家说，2025年要做到500万辆保底。听起来数字很大，但是细细想一想，作为大众这种企业，算一算燃油消耗量，所谓的咖啡，没有这部分，真的难做到。大众到底是什么样的目标呢？海兹曼先生回答龙部长的问题说：大众要在2025年电动车市场占有率不输给传统的内燃机，我理解是有多少就要做同比例。

“未来如何卡新一轮汽车革命？”李斌总说，懂汽车是必须的，但是只懂汽车是不够的，因为我是一个汽车里最懂互联网的，互联网里最懂汽车的，这就是未来产业革命的发展方向。他还说是赵老师给他做的广告，但我一分钱广告费都没收。

李斌总作为新造车势力所谓标志性人物，提到一点，智能电动车是未来发展方向。这一点得到刘主任的高度认可，而刘主任说：这不对，说起来费劲，还不如叫SEV。

“客户体验”得到了海兹曼先生高度认同，这个过程中，龙部长以他股东的形式来挑战了李斌总，说：你真的觉得汽车产业有那么容易吗。实际上对于汽车再转型，我们还有一颗敬畏的心，就是李斌总表达出来的：汽车要有敬畏。我们要想跟传统汽车企业竞争，要想最终获胜，还是一个漫漫的路，要上下求索，但是他相信最终新生事物一定战胜老旧事物。

刘主任也说了，听了今天大众的这番话，不认为传统车企还没有觉醒。实际上大众对于客户体验未来的战略布局是清晰的，我认为可能奔驰、宝马也做得很好，但是因为没参加百人会，所以我们认为他们做得可能就不够了。这就是给你机会，你得参与，给你机会，你得表现。我原来是汽车的专家，现在变成节目主持人了，这就是表现好了。白岩松不愿意主持百人会，只有我来主持了。

李斌总说了很重要的一点，客户体验没有很复杂的学问、没有很高的技术含量，可是对传统车其来说，要作为全新的客户体验，要改变曾经的一百年的思维模式，革自己的命最难。我认为这个就说到了点上。

但最后刘主任说了最重要的一点，我们一定要知道这次的革命是变革性的，是翻天覆地的，但是我们得知道这个机会在哪儿，不是简单的造车，一定要抓住痛点。实际上是由于智能、由于能源革命、由于互联了，我们的使用方式会发生翻天覆地的变化，这就是商机。不要简单的激动，也不要跟风，要透过现象看本质，真正的商机，车还是要造好的，这是必要条件，但是我们更要把充分的条件做足，可能这也是我们所谓新兴企业看到的一个机会。但是刘主任也说，千万别起个大早，赶个晚集，也不要很聪明、很能干，但成为了“龟兔赛跑”的笨兔子，就是既要强大，更要早行动，因为这个先机比李斌看得窗口更短，这是我的理解。

下面龙部长要有感而发，大家掌声欢迎！

龙永图：对全球汽车发展大的趋势，大家都讲了很好的意见，就是要发展智能的电动汽车。现在我想问一个大家都很关心的问题，中国怎么样从一个汽车大国成为汽车强国。这个事也是我们讨论很多年的事，改革开放那么多年来，我们中国的汽车工业确实发生得非常快，改革开放那一年中国才生产16万辆汽车，去年已经生产2900万辆汽车，那个时候我们中国在全球的汽车市场份额才3%，现在已经超过30%，中国确实是一个地地道道的汽车大国。但是大家要承认，也要面对这个现实，我们中国还不是汽车强国，我们自己的品牌，在整个汽车市场上占40%，而且主要是中低端的市场，核心技术，核心零部件，还有很长的路要走。我们面临这样一场新的汽车变革，在这样的背景之下，特别是像我们中国的互联网企业，我们中国的汽车企业，国外的竞争对手，处在一个比较强势的地位，像我们的阿里巴巴，像我们的百度、腾讯，和美国的谷歌、亚马逊，基本在一个起跑线上。而且我们中国有7亿多网民，那么大的互联网市场。

所以，在这样大的背景之下，确实给我们中国的汽车产业带来新的机遇，使我们中国的汽车产业，推动成为汽车强国是一个前所未有的机会。我也做了一点家庭作业，我看了一下，你讲我们中国作为一个汽车强国的几条标准，五条标准：第一条标准是本土企业为主体；第二条标准是自主的、完整的产业链；第三条标准，自主掌控的核心技术；第四条标准，世界级影响力的品牌；第五条标准，有一定的全球市场份额。现在我们出口才占3%，这一点上我们占了最远。我基本同意这几条，但是概念不是很清楚，我们大家多可以很好的讨论。讲到本土企业为主体，海兹曼先生是不是坐不住了？凡是在中国注册的企业就是本土企业，就是中国企业，这是我那么多年来和你们汽车界一些人的根本分歧所在。

赵福全：现在又进入了高潮，高潮从此开始。

龙永图：全球化的时代里面，大众的企业在中国注册，成为中国大众，名字叫“中国大众”，怎么不能叫本土企业呢？所以这是一个最根本的对于整个走向世界强国一个很重大的分歧，这些年来一直没有解决这个事情。我们中国加入世界贸易组织，讲到国民待遇，对所有不同所有制的企业，包括合资企业，包括国有企业，包括民营企业，一视同仁，这是中国作为市场经济国家最重要的核心标准。但是我们现在在这个问题上，大家不一定有共识。你讲的这五条标准，本土企业为主体，首先要把“本土企业”这个概念要搞清楚了，这样才能够算数，否则大家就是讨论两件事情。自主的完整的产业链，我们倒是有很大的优势，过去大众在这儿造车，充电桩大部分是中国企业在干这个事，现在产业链越来越长，共享汽车的服务到底是合资企业在搞，还是国内的企业在搞？都很难说。一些国内企业搞共享汽车更有优势，因为更熟悉国内的消费者。所以，带来了很大的变化，在这样的形势下，大家以一种开放的思维讨论一下怎么样使中国变成汽车强国。我们中国变成现在的汽车大国就是因为开放，如果没有开放，我们根本不可能生产2900万辆汽车，生产290万辆就差不多了。为什么我今天想参加这个论坛，就是想讨论这个问题，我参加了几次汽车论坛以后，我的观念跟汽车人分歧很大，索引我基本回避参加汽车论坛，我觉得一来就是挨骂的角色。现在李总他们都来了，咱们共同语言可能多一点，搞充电桩的都来了。我开始就讲“天上掉下了林妹妹”，汽车产业也掉下了原来不是你们大院里的人。

赵福全：龙部长抛出非常重要的想法，刚才讲了产业变革，千载难逢的这种机会，但是如何抓住这个机会？中国汽车产业更上一层楼，其中就有一个，到顶中国汽车产业更上一层楼，要做强，做大，已经是事实了，可以更大，但是怎么做有内涵的大？有技术，产品，市场，包括所谓的在群雄逐鹿开放的大环境下本土企业生产空间的问题。

刘主任，刚才讲了千载难逢的历史机遇，李斌总说干脆不叫China EV，就叫Smart EV，China EV是中国电动汽车的讨论，我们可以引领，但是不能包罗世界，历史的机会给中国的到底在哪儿？中国汽车产业在世界变革的大浪潮下，我们如何借势，选择，最后形成能力，最终将来屹立于世界之林，不管有多少，但是还是有中国的丰田，所谓的“未来汽车”。龙主任，您怎么看产业变革对于中国产业发展的机会？我们如何能够更好的抓住？您怎么给习主席写一封内参，是可以公开的来回答龙部长的话。

刘世锦：首先，我同意刚才讲的“本土企业”的定义，凡是在中国本土注册的企业，都是中国的企业。我们很多年以前都讲过这个观点，在全球化的情况下，想把这个企业分清楚，跨国企业，中国企业，中国的，外国的，分清楚越来越困难。比如德国大众是在海外上市的，很多股东是中国人，在德国大众汽车里面也有很多中国人，中国人搞研发，搞生产，消费者也是中国，如果一定要把血统搞清楚，会发现越来越困难，实际上只要在中国土地上注册，推动中国的GDP，推动中国技术的进步，给中国带来福利，都可以定义为本土企业的范围之内。中国的企业，由汽车大国转成汽车强国，现在碰到了前所未有的大机遇，刚才讲的百年一见的大变局，现在是前所未有的大机遇。为什么这么说？一个新的技术可能产生在国外，当然也可能产生在中国国内，但是要能够赚钱，要有竞争力，中国是有优势的，为什么呢？因为中国更容易转化为一种商业模式。我前一段时间去过以色列，以色列号称是创新的国度，他们的创投企业在纳斯达克上是不少的，但是全世界的互联网企业最大的是来自两个国家，一个是美国，一个我国，为什么？人多。前一段时间“双11”，互联网企业卖了两千多亿，说互联网企业真厉害。但是如果放在以色列呢？他们能卖多少？卖不了多少，因为中国有14亿人口，而且正处在消费结构升级的时候，中国现在国内的需求量已经跟美国一样了，很快就要超过美国了。所以在中国最有可能把潜在的技术，或者现实的技术，转化为商业模式。

刚才讲那些新东西，加在老汽车上，将来出现“SEV”，一旦推开以后，商业模式是最有可能在中国成功的，在中国成功以后，我们就由大变强了。这个机会到底怎么样呢？我碰见一个事，我的朋友在北京买车摇号，很长时间也摇不上，被动搞了新能源汽车，先凑合凑合再说。开了一段时间以后，他说让他换都不换了，他觉得已经太好了，各方面比原来想象的汽车都要好，不仅接受了，而且爱上它了。中国现在有7、8亿网民，这些网民如果都成为未来的“SEV”的拥有者，可以想像中国的汽车市场。中国已经是世界上最大的汽车市场，但是是传统车的市场，如果将来成为“SEV”的市场呢？我们企业不强能吗？不强都没有办法，所以我非常乐观，而且这个时间会很快。中国的产业配套非常强，中国在历次技术革命中一直是落后的，但是这次不一样了，我们某些领域可能有点差距，但是相当多的领域是并驾齐驱，甚至是局部领先。这一轮汽车革命，成功了以后，企业的形态将会发生很大变化，比如说共享单车，它是一个企业吗？它将来是一个平台，和我们某个企业是不一样的。另外，无人驾驶，百度正在开发，百度开发的是一个系统，类似于苹果那样的系统，在全世界是开放的。未来汽车品牌的企业，还是一个一个某个品牌的企业吗？我现在搞不清楚，我只是感觉到未来的汽车企业的形态，一定跟现在有非常大的差别，很多是属于平台性的企业，将来大众也可能会成为某种类型平台性的企业。我们不要用现在的眼光看未来的事情，我们需要有一点前瞻性，中国所谓由汽车大国转向汽车强国，这样步子更快一点。

赵福全：非常了很多有深度的思考，也是脑洞大开，我们要用全新的思维。我看海兹曼和李总都在拼命举手要回答龙部长的问题。

海兹曼：再次强调大众中国一些新的战略。我们一直支持中国在汽车产业领域新的技术的研发工作，考虑到传统汽车行业现在所面临一些新的机遇和过去的挑战，希望能够实现这样一个变革。我非常认可，也非常支持各方之间的竞争，但是竞争必须是公平的，不能够受限制，不同各方企业都应当有均等的、公平的机会。对于我们来说，这一点非常重要。我们需要有一种长期的、稳定的法律框架，如果情况在不断地变化，就需要建立相应的体制、体制，如汽车产业需要大量投资的，为此，我们就需要持续、可预测的未来，在这个语境之下，现在我们就需要修正现有电动汽车市场的一些情况。

对于大众汽车而言，也会进一步去了解在2020年以后，这个市场的需求到底是什么，现在这个问题上有一定讨论，但可能讨论的结果还不够清晰。所以我们或许需要去进一步考虑一下到2020年以后，各企业的角色是什么。我们需要在正确的时间做正确的事情，这样才能真正提高效率，否则我们的是在浪费时间。

赵福全：海兹曼先生认为大众就是一个中国的企业，认为在中国雇员、在中国交税、在中国打拼市场。他也谈到一点，汽车产业不管有多大的产业生态的改变，但有一些基本的规律，还是一个长周期、高投入，产业链比较长的产品。所以需要立法的人给企业更长的时间，让企业知道方向在哪儿，法规怎么走向，让他们有足够时间能够提供给消费者更满意的产品。如，不能极限于2020年，现在就要知道2020年以后到底是什么样子，因为我们在这里认认真真的耕耘。这是我的理解。

李斌：第一个观点，我认为中国在过去二十年里，不管是汽车的产业政策，还是整个开放市场的政策，都非常成功。汽车行业经常被讨论的一个问题，就是市场换技术，换没换来？我从2000年创办易车到现在，经历了这个过程。虽然不像现在直接跳到做汽车的品牌里面去，答案非常肯定，肯定是换来的。如果不做蔚来汽车创业，可能不去理解这个事情，可能理解中国品牌市场份额现在也在慢慢上升的，接近50%了，2017年差不多50%了，这个份额能够上升，像广汽、吉利、长城、上汽、长安等很多中国品牌做得非常不错，为什么会有这样的进步？还是因为开放带来了供应链的基础，带来了产业基础，带来了人才和先进管理的思想。

在中国做汽车的创业是非常幸福的，这话不是矫情。大家想象一下，在英国做一个汽车的创业，零部件都要到中国来采购，完全无法想象这件事情。因为中国有人才基础、有产业链基础，才可以去做这个创业，这也是为什么在过去几年里，中国的汽车初创公司像雨后春笋一样涌现出来。现在到硅谷去看，全都是中国的初创公司，这都是以前从来没看到过的事情。

虽然现在中国的品牌出口还不太够，但是整个由大变强的基础是已经有的，有三个基础：市场基础；产业链的基础，如，蔚来汽车虽然百分之七十几的零部件是全球性的合作伙伴，但是百分之九十几是中国产的；人才基础，在过去二十年里，合资公司、外企所培养的人才是给我们带来了很大的基础，包括赵老师，您也是因为这样一个开放的市场，才能当选国际汽车工程师联合会的主席。

从我的思考角度来讲，在中国做汽车的创业是幸福的。虽然很难，但还是幸福的。这是因为开放的政策带来的市场基础和人才基础。

第二个观点，毫无疑问，智能电动汽车是中国汽车产业由大变强，真正成为汽车强国的一个历史性机遇。原来都说弯道超车，我说弯道超车太难了，直道都超不了，还弯道超，弯道超车需要更高的技巧，永远都是无限接近，要超越太难。去年我提了一个词叫“换道先跑”。我们没有包袱，像我们这种公司根本不搞混合动力、汽油车、发动机，先放在边上，别搞了，我们只能无限接近，人家已经搞了一百年了，你一下就能超越？ !但是智能电动汽车方面我们不怕。我当时说：第一年拿世界冠军，第二年破纪录，第三年出量产车。我们现在Formula E历史上第一个年度车手总冠军是我们的，目前纽伯格林北环等几个知名赛道最快的穿速是我们的，我们也出了量产车，ES8虽然还有很多挑战，但肯定是在中国土地上产出来的性能最高、技术含量最高的车，包括大众的车在内。我们这辆车技术含量肯定是在中国产的所有车里最高的。我不会狂妄到说这个车在全世界里是最好的，但是在中国产的车里，一条一条比，它肯定已经是最好的，因为是用最新的理念去研发的。

我们现在在德国媒体里小有知名度，包括上次德国来了几十个媒体采访，被德国媒体问到一个问题：你们做的事情，奔驰、宝马、奥迪做不到吗？我说：我不知道，他没做，但我做了。这不是“弯道超车”，是“换道先跑”。宝马要参加下一个赛季的Formula E，争夺第五个赛季的冠军，但第一个赛季的冠军已经是我的了。这是变革给我们带来新的机遇。

第三个观点，我们现在创业的信心跟以前不一样了，在1996年开始创业时，我还是一个学生，我去海淀工商所登记，《公司法》刚刚颁布，说学生能注册公司吗？我说没有不让我注册公司，反正最后还是让我注册了。但是今天已经不一样了，我们有最大的市场。现在4000多人，70%是研发的，来自于40多个国家，在国外有600多同事。全世界最大市场在中国，全世界最支持电动车发展的政府是中国政府，要想投身这个事业，不跟着有中国背景的创业公司做，机会不大。所以自信心不一样了，资本支持也不一样了。我们现在已经做了几十亿美金的融资，每年研发方面支出是十几亿美金，不比别人钱少，有56个投资人，除了中国最顶级的科技互联网公司，也包括中国最大的国开行、中金等一些投资机构，也包括全球大的投资机构，像淡马锡等，有市场，有资金，有人才，更关键的是我们知道中国用户、知道中国用户需要什么，我们反应速度又更快，从汽车大国到汽车强国，这些新创公司是可以承担一定责任的，这个责任是真正提升品牌、提升技术含量、提升整个竞争力的历史窗口。

我特别同意，凡是在中国本土生产、本土研发、本土服务用户的公司当然都是本土企业，咱们也不要有义和团心态，非要证明什么都是中国人搞出来的，这是没有意义的。

龙永图：刚才李总讲得非常好，我完全赞同，确实是历史性的机遇。刚才海兹曼教授在回答我的问题的时候，说到2025年判断中国的智能电动车在整个汽车产量中所占的比例，他说占的比例肯定超过全球的比例，我觉得这是一个非常重要的判断，也说明中国在智能的电动汽车方面可以比全世界的平均速度走得快，这是一个非常基本的判断。海兹曼教授这样资深的汽车人所做出的判断，我是非常认同的，我想特别问一下，你为什么会做出这样的判断？你是根据哪些做出这样的判断？到2025年中国生产的智能电动汽车会比全世界其他国家多，至少占的比例高，你是基于什么做出这样的判断？当然，在这一点上，中国政府是非常支持电动汽车的发展，关于入世谈判中，对合资企业一些政策的限制，首先在电动汽车方面放开，说明中国政府是非常开放的，看到了电动汽车在整个汽车发展当中具有最大的潜力和发展能力，而恰恰在这个领域，对外资政策的限制放开，这一点海兹曼教授和其他的外企应该是心领神会，也不要总抱怨中国对外资有多少限制，在这个问题上也是一个很好的政策信号，有请海兹曼教授答复一下刚才的主要判断，我对那个判断我非常兴奋，因为是出自于你，不是出自于中国人，不是出自于外行，在2025年智能汽车生产比例中中国所占的比例会高于全球，对于大家是一个很大的鼓舞。

海兹曼：首先，我们已经看到世界上最高比例的SEV已经在中国了，这是当前的现状。一方面，现在新能源车的市场主要是由补贴来驱动的，另外一方面，也是由像北京、广州、上海这样限牌的城市政策驱动的，这样的状况未来也会持续，越来越的城市将会限制新发牌的发放，所以消费者就会倾向于购买新能源车，我们想插入式在这里很有意义，尤其是考虑到充电基础设施，目前基础设施的发展还不能满足消费者的需求，如果有插电式的电动汽车，可能易用性更好一点，人们就可以每天使用这辆车，远途也可以更加灵活。

另外，我们说到了很多自动驾驶，说到这项技术发展多么迅速，但是目前在中国还缺少对于自动驾驶的法律框架，比如新的奥迪A8，第一辆可以用三级自动驾驶技术来驾驶的车，三级的自动驾驶就意味着我们把驾车的责任从驾驶员转移到汽车上，这是一个很大的改变。但是这样的一个技术，现在在中国道路上还无法使用，因为我们没有明确的法律框架，所以这应该是我们未来努力发展和弥补的一点。对于其他来说，我认为只有竞争才会驱动未来。所以，我之前也提到，我们的需求应该真正看到车辆整体拥有成本的降低，这里是中国的优势，中国有规模的优势，中国的量这么大，所以公司可以从规模生产当中获得效益，可以第一次在中国达成使用电脑汽车的目标。但是为了达成这样的目标，需要良性的竞争。我们也说到了很多现在的电池状况，我们需要有合适的竞争才能够保证电池在很短的时间之内成本下降。

赵福全：由于时间关系，我们可以问两三个问题，报一下自己的家门，只能问一个人。

戴姆勒代表：我是戴姆勒公司的代表，首先回答一下刚才龙部长提的问题，是不是有国际公司在国内已经参与了分时租赁，共享汽车这一类的业务。我想强调一下，戴姆勒金融服务公司已经从事这一类业务，尤其是从重庆开始，用Smart做分时租赁，还包括共享，这个业务已经扩展到很多城市。

我也是百人会的成员，希望产业领袖对话能够持续下去，能制度化，希望我们集团的领导也能参与。我现在提一个问题，刚才听到两位领导，刘主任，龙部长再次强调外资企业在中国投资的企业也都视为国内企业，这个听了我们很欣慰。我的问题，一个很明确的事实，中国的电动汽车在全世界是领先的，第一是靠政府支策，政策对今后汽车行业变革也好，发展也好，起了很大的作用。刚才海兹曼教授也讲到，我们希望这个政策能更加透明，这个政策能更加有可预测性，由于我们也视为当地企业，希望有更多的机会参与到政策的咨询，政策的形成，政策的听政过程，对于我们这种企业大规模投资的企业，对政策前瞻性很关键。第二，刚才讲到中国在电动汽车方面很领先，也希望走出去，刚才龙部长讲到我们出口的份额只占3%，有没有这样的考虑，今后在新能源汽车方面的规范，尤其是安全，测试规范方面，和这些国际的汽车强国加强合作，这也是有利于我们中国汽车走出去，扩大国际的接受度，扩大国际影响的一个重要的组成方面。

赵福全：这既是建议，也是问题。

刘世锦：这次十九大报告讲了一句话，凡是在中国境内注册的企业都要一视同仁，平等对待。我觉得这是一个大的原则，包括我们下一步，我们电动车发展过程中，刚才讲了政策是要透明的，特别是要公平的。十九大有这么一个精神，一视同仁，平等对待，有人说做得到吗？我说如果已经做到了就不提了。但是有一个目标，要朝这个方向走，是要努力做到的。我们现在的政府，包括我们电动汽车的发展，整个政府主管部门也想有所作为，特别不能回到过去那种，比如发个牌照，发个资质，这不是市场经济的办法，因为事先不可能知道谁是真正的好企业。一个行业最后可能剩5家企业，开始可能是50家、100家企业相互竞争，不知道哪个企业能够走到最后，哪个是最好的，所以发那个牌照是没有意义的，实际上就是阻止了这个行业的发展。中国汽车行业对外开放是成功的，如果没有对

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